This doesn't feel like a comedy

I've read 20 pages and haven't seen a single joke. A comedy should have at least 3-4 jokes per minute.

I'm not saying that the jokes are bad or anything. I'm saying there aren't any jokes. There isn't anything even slightly amusing about this. It's trying to be like Entorage except it doesn't have any amusing characters or situations.

Here's something to give a frame of reference for how comedy works: http://splitsider.com/2010/11/proving-scientifically-tha-30-rock-is-better-than-my-dad-says/

In that article, BLANK My Dad Says is rated inferior to 30 Rock by a wide margin. Yet BLANK My Dad Says still has 3.6 jokes per minute.

Can someone point me to one joke in the first 10 pages?

Thanks for the post, Nate. It's not a hard funny like 30 ROCK and you're right, I should find more jokes. The over the Obama stuff on page one, the over the top dialogue on page two, and "Where's our money" are all supposed to land as jokes in the teaser, but it's becoming clear they're not landing for people. I totally see your point and will try to put more jokes in a rewrite. Personally my favorite joke is the elderly people watching the fight, but you might not have gotten that far in the script.

Thanks again for taking the time to read and I really appreciate your feedback.

Sam,

I just wanted to say that you should probably not solicit feedback and reviews from friends. I saw you posted on the Deals Done forum that you uploaded your project on Amazon and you went to twitter too to promote it.

Your buddies and acquaintances will certainly give you 5 stars without even reading the damn thing. So you're getting a false sense that you're on the right track with your project. In doing that, ironically, has made your project "popular" and people want to see what's so good about it. Now you're getting the negative (perhaps over negative) feedback, partly because you're the most popular.

My take on your project: I think you're going for something hip and sleek and whatnot and it passes off as someone trying to be hip and sleek and therefore uninspired. Like the guy in high school trying to fit in, rather than just be himself. I feel that you thought of tone before content. Some guys write dramas that turn out to be comedies and that is due to the content. I think you wrote to sell the overall tone of the show but didn't do it quite as well as you could.

And I could not find one joke. A lot of talk but no real enjoyable dialogue. I read somewhere here that someone said comedy needs more action and less dialogue....? Tell that to Jerry Seinfeld.

My opinion is just my own but this is NOT a comedy. This may have comedic bits but thats like saying the avengers is a comedy. Your show reminds me of Fastlane. Trying to be hip before anything else.

Hi Jeff,

You're right that people seem to be giving one star reviews to "balance out the bias" of the fact that I have supporters who are friends (though none from Done Deal or Twitter, really). In fact, it's clear from the low reviews that they're not reading much of it either (another commenter said it's the teaser that's the weakest part of the script which is leading to a lot of the criticism, and she's not wrong). That's my fault for not making the teaser funnier or more interesting. But at least they could give me that note so I can make it better.

For the record, I didn't write this script because it's hip. I did it because I love the music, I live in Los Angeles trying to be a creative professional, and Ghetto epitomizes the kind of guy I went to college with. Ghetto's supposed to be the outrageous character in a world of straight men, in the vein of Archer and Kenny Powers. I think the people who say it's not funny enough are right, but I don't see the other popular comedy projects as having that many more laughs than their feedback indicates (also mostly from their friends, many of whom rate mine low while they rate their buddies higher - at least they could give some more concrete feedback if they're going to do that). I'll do my best to make this funnier, but I don't think it's fair for you to accuse me of not being authentic.

I wrote this project to explore my voice as a writer, not to try to jump on a trend. Jokes can always be added. Story, character and structure come first for me. I'll be sure to do another draft and really punch it up. All comedy writers know the jokes come last, and this is an early enough draft that I need feedback to know that the story is really working. It's funny to me that you say "tone before content" as the most difficult part of this project has been figuring out the tone - at first it was more paycable, now it's more broadcast, but it's too soft (I wanted the emphasis on the relationships) which is becoming clearer as I get more feedback.

As to friends' support, I was told that it doesn't matter if you're the most popular project, that it's not important to get people's feedback, but that feels false to me. First, it's clear that I can get the word out about my project not only to my friends (who have promoted and shared with their friends) but also to industry contacts who could help Amazon syndicate in series. And second, momentum generates more momentum. Though there may be a lot of negativity, at least my project is getting read (there are a lot of downloads that aren't resulting in comments, positive or negative). If the biggest complaint is more jokes, that's an easier fix than the story not working or the characters being uninteresting. Someone read 20 pages before stopping to say it's not funny enough for them - that's a lot of reading so they must have been interested in something.

To be honest, I don't think most people under 30 are going to get this script. But I didn't write it for everybody. I wrote it for me and my friends first. What's interesting to me is that you've obviously done some research on me and my project - isn't that the whole point of this process?

Thanks for stopping by. You bring up some interesting points and help inspire me to do better in the next draft.

"What's interesting to me is that you've obviously done some research on me and my project - isn't that the whole point of this process?"

Not really.

Hey.

I read 20 pages. I really wanted to hook on. I didn't. Perhaps it's because I am a classics and Jazz lover and I mostly hate loud music. I do not like night clubs and gambling. I come from a tiny city from a tiny European country.

However. I do understand, that comedy does not equal comedy. Check out how different "TBBT", and "Curb your enthusiasm" are and I can say I like them all. Because they are different. I also like "Community", but only because it's NOT different (pun intended). It's just more extravagant.

This is not a sitcom. I very much agree with Jeff Planters here. This is something trying to be hip with tiny amounts of comedy and abuse thrown in. It's good that you write for you and friends. However. Make sure this is not an excuse. I have seen people write scripts with loads of directing and extensive descriptions of feelings people have. When confronted, they all say - I will direct it myself. Yes, because no serious director will.

I do not agree with the URL Jeff has posted. It's mostly bullshit to review number of canned laughs or joke wanabes in a sitcom. I want great story and one great line. If I laugh my pants off - it's good for me. 204 vs 130 jokes? Useless if the first show had 0 LOLS and the other had just 1 LOL.

However. Technically your script is very professional and readable. I can sense the characters and it paces moderately. It's (perhaps rightfully so) too "insider" to be appreciated by many, but with the quality of your writing, you should be able to pull of a serious production contender. If only it WERE a sitcom.

Hey, a typo - page 8 bottom: If you’re job’s that easy = YOUR job.

Best regards!

I did not post any link. That was another fellow. Personally, I don't think there's a formula to comedy other than that it should be funny. I don't ratio my jokes to pages.

Thanks Toni! I appreciate it. The one great joke to me in here is the moment where Ghetto's going crazy while all the old people just stare at him. That was actually the genesis of this whole project - how funny it would be for one guy to be going crazy with loud music while the rest of the world watches dumbfounded. I think it's a hilarious visual, but I will find more like it.

I've gotten the advice to make Ghetto more outrageous - in one version, that included lots of drugs, but I don't think that's right for this competition.

Jeff, this competition is not just about getting a pilot made. It's also about gaining exposure. If you're only in it to win it, you will miss the point of the journey just like Ghetto does.

Sam, thanks for the reply. Sorry if my initial comment seemed a bit edgy. I think what Jeff said about the high star rating is what threw me off. I was expecting a really funny script and got something that was more about being hip.

Your characters all seem like they're trying too hard to be cool. The trouble with cool people as characters is that they aren't interesting. Cool people, in my experience, are desperately trying not to do anything out of the ordinary which might possibly attract negative attention. Entorage pulls of comedy elements because Turtle and Drama aren't cool.

Are you familiar with Deadmau5? A guy like that who has a costume getup while he DJ's might be a direction to take Ghetto. Maybe Ghetto is cool and nondescript to a fault, which is not going to help him get exposure as a DJ. He needs to adopt an outrageous persona that he can't seem to get right.

Good luck.

Thanks, Nate. That certainly helps clarify things. I've been to Deadmau5 concerts and there's something to be said for Ghetto taking on a costume - that would help with the LA/LV alter ego of it all. It's funny - to me, Ghetto is not really that cool. In fact, he's kind of a douchebag loser in this. But it's interesting that others see him differently and I'll try to make him more flawed/idiotic. Thanks again!

This feedback is all really helpful. I know the script isn't perfect - and I need your help to make it BETTER. As a writer it's hard to see what's not working (the forest for the trees, if you will) - it's the feedback from strangers that don't know me or the world that will really make this a success. THANK YOU!

Jeff and Toni,

The point of my link was to demonstrate that even terrible comedies like "BLANK My Dad Says" still have jokes (or attempted jokes) in the script. That was to contrast with this project which, by my reading, had zero jokes. I'm not offering the article as a template for how to write a comedy.

Ok - I didn't link it. I love 30 rock. I despise SMDS.

I did not find any humor in this piece either. It wasn't bad in itself, just not a comedy, and seemed odd to me too that it is considered a comedy by the writer.

Look, the script wasn't jokey on purpose - it's not the tone I wanted in this draft. I was going for something more subtle, a little more dramedy I guess, which still as a half-hour single camera show would be considered "comedy" by television standards. It didn't work so I'm working on a rewrite. Please be more constructive if you're going to keep saying it's not a comedy - that only helps to a certain point, after which it's just not helpful at all.

How would you make the A-story funnier? Is there a funny B-story/runner that is in there I could pull out more? What's a really funny comic attitude for Jess to have? Do you know anyone like this and if so what makes them funny? Is there a funny tick for Ghetto to have? Is there a better flaw than him being an selfish narcissist?

Sorry to Jeff for pulling that link out of your sock.

Well, some guy going berserk while others watch in shock is not a good premise for a show. How do you expect to run a comedy (or dramedy) for 5 or 10 seasons, 24 episodes each?

Here. I am making this up as I go, so it may sound really stupid.

Gheto is deaf. He cannot hear anything. He's a great guy, studied biology at some university and could easily get a job in the field of research or even education, but he LOVES music. He LOVES rhythm. He feels it in his chest, when the music is really loud. He wants to be a DJ sooooooo freaking bad. When he cannot listen to loud music, he puts his fingers on a speaker membrane to feel it. His fingers are super sensitive. It makes him a PHENOMENAL lover too. Chicks dig his sensitive touch. He cannot get rid of them. They just want to get into his pants all the time. He is also an ADHD and gets distracted easily.

His chick is a mathematician. She's his opposite. Clean, methodical, and seemingly - the only one who can steer him out of trouble. And she thinks he is headed for trouble with this music thing...

How about we always have subtitles for what they talk about, even though she hears well... Loads of good stuff can come out. Running jokes, misunderstandings, intentional ignoring, yes, even going wild while people are watching...

"Well, some guy going berserk while others watch in shock is not a good premise for a show. How do you expect to run a comedy (or dramedy) for 5 or 10 seasons, 24 episodes each?"

That's not the premise. It's just a funny visual. It's not to sustain the series. The premise is a guy who's trying to make it professionally as a musician while bouncing between two women in two cities. A love triangle and professional dreams will definitely last at least a hundred episodes.

Your version of the show sounds interesting, but it's a totally different show and I don't think I can write the deaf experience well since I have no personal relationship with it (though I could investigate, it'll just take more time than I have). Someone else had suggested I make Ghetto a personal assistant to a Deadmau5-like character. That's also a different show, interesting to consider, but I'm trying to make this show better. The girlfriend trying to steer him away from music is something I could lay in earlier as that's part of why she suggests he sell his gear at the top of act three. Thanks!

All the discussion is helpful. Your idea could trigger something that could make the big difference. Thank you for taking the time and putting in the thinking!

Comically enough, when I uploaded the latest draft to Amazon it's default description for a script's title was "e.g. Funnier Version" - which is exactly what this is, hopefully.

I left stars in so you guys could see where changes were made if you just want to cruise through it. No worries if not, it was helpful to get this feedback and post a draft with some more jokes in it nonetheless. Thanks again!

So I reread the new script and some of the added jokes are great...but some seemed a little forced.

Examples: The Snail talk with his boss.

CLAIRE
"Not humans. We try to be them. *
Botox, bikini bods, bubble butts..."
^^I liked the original line of this when it was just 'Not humans, we try to be them.' that was a solid line I thought. Maybe even as she says this, she can point out an older couple wearing a hip outfit trying to be 'young again'

Also--just from one line Jess's character changed completely in my mind. And it's in the beginning when she said 'You missed me. Say it bitch' and I kind of cringed because in the first version I didn't see that as something she would say. Just a thought :)

But! That was just my feedback, I hope it helps a bit. I know it can be tricky when you get advice and you have to figure out what to listen to and what to not take in. At the end of the day, you have to stay true to yourself.

Comedy isn't easy, eh? lol Have a great day!

-BCherry

Not easy at all! Thanks - some stuff's going to work, some stuff's not - and there's always more rewriting to be done... thanks for the feedback!

Hi! I started reading your rewrite. Found the new stuff. it's an improvement, but I CRAVE quick witty conversation. I played a bit with the opening conversation. Perhaps I'm wrong, but you have to keep you audience thinking. Don't monologue. Make it snappy and spiced with wit and intelligent unsuspecting twists. That's working all right about 30% of time, however, the rest has to be awkward situations and people trying to get out of them, but failing due to their character flaws.

Brittany was right. Original short line. No explanation. Better. Wittier. Bringing it to the nose dulls it out.

Here's my try at the opening conversation:
---------------------------------

GHETTO
I love this trip, man. Uphill ... Like stairway to heaven.

PAUL (O.S.)
Yeah, but getting back 's descent to hell.

GHETTO
Hell's what we make ourselves. (beat) Sartre.

PAUL (O.S.)
Dude, you're scary.

GHETTO
That's wikipedia for you.

PAUL (O.S.)
Oh good. I thought it was an STD.

GHETTO
You mocking my girlfriend for being smarter than you?

PAUL (O.S.)
I'm mocking you for taking her orders.

GHETTO
Hey, she got me a job there.

PAUL (O.S.)
You could easily lay bricks in Vegas.

GHETTO
I wanna be a King not a freakin' bricklayer.

PAUL (O.S.)
In L.A. noone's a king. Look at Governator. He was a king actor, but still had to run for the office. And he'll never be a president.

GHETTO
Obama's no king either.

PAUL (O.S.)
Right, man. He's got nothing over Denzel for opening a film.

GHETTO
You're right. But in Vegas... (beat) Everyone's a king.

Ghetoo looks to the horizon for a sec.

GHETTO (cont'd)
And I’m a freakin' baller everyman.

Off the car driving toward the mecca...

Interesting rewrite, Tony. Not sure it accomplishes the same thing, but I might just be married to the monologue idea... though I could see it as something that an actor would want to deliver. I figured Paul was an east coaster who had to be introduced to the west coast idea and I feel like we get to the quick back and forth by page two anyways, and if Paul is off screen that whole first scene, then maybe there are some other images to find... I don't really see Ghetto as a guy who quotes Sartre. But the Zeppelin line works nicely. Good thoughts, I'll have to play around with it. Thanks for the perspective! Much appreciated you taking the time to put this together

It was just a spur of the moment. I'd dump Sartre reference myself too probably. West coast DJs do not do Sartre. I know this is not your style, that's why I had absolutely no problem posting it like this. Your writing style is excellent and perhaps a schmuck from Slovenia with English as his third language is not really a reference when it comes to west coast DJ scene.
I've never even been to L.A. or Vegas, so... what do I know...

Keep up the good work, man.

Haha no worries! I appreciate your support and it helps just to have someone to throw out other ideas - never know what's going to stick. I like that Ghetto might quote a bunch of songs, being a DJ that could be how he communicates... Thanks again man!

sam the 2nd draft seems so forced. Jokes are flat. Spicy nachos is now double entendre for something?

C'mon. A joke isn't just a joke for the sake of it, it needs to move the story along at the same time.

I think the biggest failing of this is that the premise overall is not situated for comedy. Sit-Com.

Spicy Nachos is slang we used in college. I'm keeping it real to my experience and I think a lot of humor is in the delivery. I don't think all jokes move a story along.

As to the sit com of it all, this isn't a cartoony show, it is based in reality. Apparently you don't like the premise in the slightest so I'm interested in your premise for this world. Did you respond to the idea of a deaf DJ? A famous DJ's assistant? Is there any version of this that you will care about or are you just hating?

Spicy Nachos is slang we used in college. I'm keeping it real to my experience and I think a lot of humor is in the delivery. I don't think all jokes move a story along.

As to the sit com of it all, this isn't a cartoony show, it is based in reality. Apparently you don't like the premise in the slightest so I'm interested in your premise for this world. Did you respond to the idea of a deaf DJ? A famous DJ's assistant? Is there any version of this that you will care about or are you just hating?