A Participant says:
More flops..."That's My Boy" and "Rock Of Ages". I rejoice in the studios' failure.
Max Otto Schrenck says:
Just when they think they have the public figured out, the public bites 'em in the pocketbook.
But I still wouldn't count on the studios cranking out small heartfelt indie dramedies anytime soon. I think they'd rather go down in red-line flames than ever admit that there's more to the public than bunch of grinning rubes clutching twenty dollar bills, eager to witness the next car wreck, explosion, or strutting apery from Adam Sandler.
But I still wouldn't count on the studios cranking out small heartfelt indie dramedies anytime soon. I think they'd rather go down in red-line flames than ever admit that there's more to the public than bunch of grinning rubes clutching twenty dollar bills, eager to witness the next car wreck, explosion, or strutting apery from Adam Sandler.
A Participant says:
[Deleted by Amazon Studios on November 17, 2012 08:12 PM UTC]
A. M. Ellison says:
I do hope they get past thinking BIGGER explosions, MORE special effects, etc., is what audiences pant for. Straightforward stories of realistic people with struggles we can relate to is long overdue.
Mike S says:
The changes in audience preference could happen suddenly. It is possible the comic book hero could die and also the Sandler gross stuff. There comes a time when these gimmicks become old and stale. I'm sure tons of folks are waiting in Hollywood, stars included for the studios to open up to more genres and styles, fresh ideas, and return to originality, good story writing. I can't wait when sketch comics give way to real acting.
A. M. Ellison says:
Hopefully, every last drop has been squeezed from comic book heroes and fairy tale retreads. If the public won't buy, they'll have to return to new stories, competently written-- with competent actors.
A Participant says:
Um... Hollywood already drools over young directors. They hire them all the time. (I work with a lot of them while doing their makeup fx.)
But eventually, they turn back to their guys who have a proven track record of getting movies in the can successfully. That translates into older directors.
And why does going to young directors mean that really awesome and meaningful movies are coming?
Young guys make silly "fun" films all the time, not just "Leaving Las Vegas" emotional grinders. (In fact, few have the life experience it takes to feel the heart of a story like that. Some do, but few.)
And let's keep in mind... Hollywood studios are still making money. Hand over fist. They never run out of rehashes. That's been the same since "talkies" started.
As "Artistes," we tend to forget that the average joe who actually works for a living, doesn't want to spend $9.50 on a ticket to see a drama that teaches him/her a life lesson.
That's why Michael Bay is a gazillionaire, folks. We can whine all we want about the lack of story, or character development, but those ticket buyers overrule all of us.
Straight forward stories with realistic people? They live that life every day. They pay for escapism.
Not to say that great indie dramas don't have a place in today's movie market, but holding your breath for a movie studio to "wake up" and stop making all popcorn movies all the time... will only result in you passing out and getting a nasty bump on your head.
>>Hopefully, every last drop has been squeezed from comic book heroes and fairy tale retreads. If the public won't buy, they'll have to return to new stories, competently written-- with competent actors.<<
The first Superman TV show debuted in 1951. People will never, ever get tired of it.
Wait till the new Spidey movie hits and check the B.O. totals.
Don't think those movies don't have "competent" writers attached. The notes they execute come "from above." :)
But eventually, they turn back to their guys who have a proven track record of getting movies in the can successfully. That translates into older directors.
And why does going to young directors mean that really awesome and meaningful movies are coming?
Young guys make silly "fun" films all the time, not just "Leaving Las Vegas" emotional grinders. (In fact, few have the life experience it takes to feel the heart of a story like that. Some do, but few.)
And let's keep in mind... Hollywood studios are still making money. Hand over fist. They never run out of rehashes. That's been the same since "talkies" started.
As "Artistes," we tend to forget that the average joe who actually works for a living, doesn't want to spend $9.50 on a ticket to see a drama that teaches him/her a life lesson.
That's why Michael Bay is a gazillionaire, folks. We can whine all we want about the lack of story, or character development, but those ticket buyers overrule all of us.
Straight forward stories with realistic people? They live that life every day. They pay for escapism.
Not to say that great indie dramas don't have a place in today's movie market, but holding your breath for a movie studio to "wake up" and stop making all popcorn movies all the time... will only result in you passing out and getting a nasty bump on your head.
>>Hopefully, every last drop has been squeezed from comic book heroes and fairy tale retreads. If the public won't buy, they'll have to return to new stories, competently written-- with competent actors.<<
The first Superman TV show debuted in 1951. People will never, ever get tired of it.
Wait till the new Spidey movie hits and check the B.O. totals.
Don't think those movies don't have "competent" writers attached. The notes they execute come "from above." :)
Matthew Watters says:
The future is not at the "box office", it's on your "smart" HD/3D TV, laptop, or tablet device. We are in a new paradigm for watching content when we want, where we want.
Has AS got plans to by pass the "box office" and distribute their films/TV shows straight to the web, on their own platform, and charge a small fee same as iTunes does with Apps?That's the future for all content. The sooner Hollywood comes to terms with that the better.
Tentpole movies will still need to be seen at the cinema, but there will be fewer and fewer as home cinema replaces the local theater.
This isn't my prediction, this is from a resent report from IBM and several heavy hitters like Apple, Samsung, and Google. With these types of companies involved it's just a matter of time.
Just have a look at companies like Netflix, they've had major increases in subscribers over the past 2 years, and it's only going to increase as broadband gets faster and cheaper worldwide.
Makes sense to me...
Has AS got plans to by pass the "box office" and distribute their films/TV shows straight to the web, on their own platform, and charge a small fee same as iTunes does with Apps?That's the future for all content. The sooner Hollywood comes to terms with that the better.
Tentpole movies will still need to be seen at the cinema, but there will be fewer and fewer as home cinema replaces the local theater.
This isn't my prediction, this is from a resent report from IBM and several heavy hitters like Apple, Samsung, and Google. With these types of companies involved it's just a matter of time.
Just have a look at companies like Netflix, they've had major increases in subscribers over the past 2 years, and it's only going to increase as broadband gets faster and cheaper worldwide.
Makes sense to me...
Nick Bain says:
While I don't have a solution it would be nice to be see more character driven stories. Characters and their roles lack depth, baggage, vulnerability, and everything that makes it interesting.
With production companies losing millions on films such as Battleship we may see smaller, or at least more intelligent, films as a result. Someone, might whisper, hey Universal, why not spend that 200 million dollars making ten twenty million dollar pictures? Or two hundred one million dollar films.
My personal feeling is that Hollywood is catering to an audience that wants simple characters and big stories. Has this always been the case? Not exactly, our heroes today are shells of the human existence. While we may go to a a film to get away from reality we don't want it to mock our own. Heroes are all capable aren't that fun to watch. What we want is to relate to a character we can understand withiin amped conflict.
With production companies losing millions on films such as Battleship we may see smaller, or at least more intelligent, films as a result. Someone, might whisper, hey Universal, why not spend that 200 million dollars making ten twenty million dollar pictures? Or two hundred one million dollar films.
My personal feeling is that Hollywood is catering to an audience that wants simple characters and big stories. Has this always been the case? Not exactly, our heroes today are shells of the human existence. While we may go to a a film to get away from reality we don't want it to mock our own. Heroes are all capable aren't that fun to watch. What we want is to relate to a character we can understand withiin amped conflict.
Nick Bain says:
While I don't have a solution it would be nice to be see more character driven stories. Characters and their roles lack depth, baggage, vulnerability, and everything that makes it interesting.
With production companies losing millions on films such as Battleship we may see smaller, or at least more intelligent, films as a result. Someone, might whisper, hey Universal, why not spend that 200 million dollars making ten twenty million dollar pictures? Or two hundred one million dollar films.
My personal feeling is that Hollywood is catering to an audience that wants simple characters and big stories. Has this always been the case? Not exactly, our heroes today are shells of the human existence. While we may go to a a film to get away from reality we don't want it to mock our own. Heroes are all capable aren't that fun to watch. What we want is to relate to a character we can understand withiin amped conflict.
With production companies losing millions on films such as Battleship we may see smaller, or at least more intelligent, films as a result. Someone, might whisper, hey Universal, why not spend that 200 million dollars making ten twenty million dollar pictures? Or two hundred one million dollar films.
My personal feeling is that Hollywood is catering to an audience that wants simple characters and big stories. Has this always been the case? Not exactly, our heroes today are shells of the human existence. While we may go to a a film to get away from reality we don't want it to mock our own. Heroes are all capable aren't that fun to watch. What we want is to relate to a character we can understand withiin amped conflict.
Mike S says:
Those movie ticket buyers so touted are seem to be drifting away so much that true Hollywood box office success are becoming very rare indeed, more like the exception than the norm. No business can absorb huge losses without experiencing change. Surely some studios will shrink their production schedules, and others will be taken over or be absorbed into other studios. Without television production, theme parks and other allied businesses, some already would pass into history.
Brian Sangster says:
@ Matthew
I agree that alternative media ( Smart Phones, Laptops, Tablet Devices) Will take on a much larger role, however ... Theaters will always be around, because going to the movies is social experince, and as human beings, we are social creatures. We still read books; many of us still love to go see live plays at the theater, and despite all of these new digital devices, we will continue to go to the cinema ... Thank God:)
Brian
I agree that alternative media ( Smart Phones, Laptops, Tablet Devices) Will take on a much larger role, however ... Theaters will always be around, because going to the movies is social experince, and as human beings, we are social creatures. We still read books; many of us still love to go see live plays at the theater, and despite all of these new digital devices, we will continue to go to the cinema ... Thank God:)
Brian
Matthew Watters says:
Brian,
I agree we will still need cinemas for big budget productions that need the Xtra BIG sound and screen, but I don't know if you have kids or not, but socialization is not big for Gen Y and Z in the "real" world, it's all online...these are the future audiences.
Looking at box office receipts, they've been in major decline for the past 5 years and will continue. I just hope this new paradigm AS has started will continue and hopefully include a new platform online for their future releases, cutting out all the middle men and charging less per view but increasing revenue by selling worldwide. A premiere on "Amazon Studios FilmWeb" for example could go worldwide overnight and that would pull in major revenue.
Just a thought...
I agree we will still need cinemas for big budget productions that need the Xtra BIG sound and screen, but I don't know if you have kids or not, but socialization is not big for Gen Y and Z in the "real" world, it's all online...these are the future audiences.
Looking at box office receipts, they've been in major decline for the past 5 years and will continue. I just hope this new paradigm AS has started will continue and hopefully include a new platform online for their future releases, cutting out all the middle men and charging less per view but increasing revenue by selling worldwide. A premiere on "Amazon Studios FilmWeb" for example could go worldwide overnight and that would pull in major revenue.
Just a thought...
Mike S says:
Very definitely, AS has linked its star to the studio system with all its risks. Might be wiser to establish an indie arm to increase its chance of success and develop digital production and distribution. Depending on WB for success in the movie business can't be too wise. Really, they should strike out on their own and create new and novel ways of producing and distributing movies.
A Participant says:
When Starbucks thought they could play in the film industry with the production of "Akeelah and The Bee" and that project failed at the boxoffice, that pretty much did them in.
AS' first release will make or break them.
Any studio listed on the stock market will 9 times out of 10 release garbage. They have shareholders and investment firms to satisfy. Hence all the sequeals, etc. Indies are not publicly owned, therefore they are free to create without pressure.
AS' first release will make or break them.
Any studio listed on the stock market will 9 times out of 10 release garbage. They have shareholders and investment firms to satisfy. Hence all the sequeals, etc. Indies are not publicly owned, therefore they are free to create without pressure.
Brian Sangster says:
@Matthew
No, I don't have kids, but I understand what you're saying. Similar predictions of the demise of books, television, and live plays have been made throughout history. And after having spoken to a few Generation Y's and Z's (including my God daughter), Socialization continues to play a major role in their lives. They've just added a new dimensions to the way that they socialize. Personal interaction is still important. By the way, the studios are much more worried about DVD sales, then they are about box office reciepts. All in all, despite the economic struggle we've had in this country, the box office has performed relatively well ( and world-wide box office is doing extremely well). They'll be fewer theaters that carry smaller films I think, but they'll continue to be shown in theaters.
No, I don't have kids, but I understand what you're saying. Similar predictions of the demise of books, television, and live plays have been made throughout history. And after having spoken to a few Generation Y's and Z's (including my God daughter), Socialization continues to play a major role in their lives. They've just added a new dimensions to the way that they socialize. Personal interaction is still important. By the way, the studios are much more worried about DVD sales, then they are about box office reciepts. All in all, despite the economic struggle we've had in this country, the box office has performed relatively well ( and world-wide box office is doing extremely well). They'll be fewer theaters that carry smaller films I think, but they'll continue to be shown in theaters.
Martin Jackson says:
@Prodigy
ok Akeelah and the Bee may not have been the number one movie at the box office but I wouldn't say it failed.
http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2006/AKELA.php
it made more then twice what it cast to make at the box office and brought in more with DVD sales.
Just because a movie isn't a blockbuster doesn't make it a flop. If a film is profitable then it should be seen as a success.
ok Akeelah and the Bee may not have been the number one movie at the box office but I wouldn't say it failed.
http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2006/AKELA.php
it made more then twice what it cast to make at the box office and brought in more with DVD sales.
Just because a movie isn't a blockbuster doesn't make it a flop. If a film is profitable then it should be seen as a success.
A Participant says:
Obviously they didn't make enough nor feel confident enough to produce anything else. 1 and done.
Antony says:
There is no reason big tentpole movies have to be bad. Marvel hasn't hit a bum note since Irin Man 2, and that was only a clunk rather than a bomb. They may not be Inception every time but they're head and shoulders above any Bayhem-driven drivel or duller than dull John Carter nonsense.
JC COULD have been a great movie but they chose spectacle over drama. If spectacle is driven by drama you have a very good blockbuster that people will see 2-3 times. If it's all spectacle, the drama forced in between those set pieces just falls flat. Imagine how much MORE money the Transformers movies would have made if they'd been good films.
Inception
Real Steel
Avengers
Amazing Spider-Man (the new one)
Batman: Dark Knight (not the new one)
[Raimi's] Spider-Man 1 & 2 (not 3)
All cracking good movies with drama at their hearts and spectacle on top.
I love a good heartfelt drama, something intellectual, such as Martha Macy May Marlene, which I thought was brilliant, but there isn't a big enough market for these to invest big time. Leave these to the filmmakers who can handle the story and let the lack of budget force them to create better stories.
Meanwhile I wish Hollywood would churn out more middle budget stuff. Decent thrillers and actioners, a good comedy, more female-led projects, etc, and I think the key is what Marvel have done so well: let the filmmakers make their vision.
Sure, sometimes when that happens you get Adam Sandler in drag or Paul Rudd improv-ing dirty talk to a mirror, but you're likely going to get Inception or The Prestige or Cabin in the Woods.
Fund some lower or mid-range budget stuff. Counter programme the blockbusters yourself. This year has proven you can have the Avengers released beside the Best Exotic Marigold Hotel and both can blow their budgets away in raw profit.
Take a chance, I say.
JC COULD have been a great movie but they chose spectacle over drama. If spectacle is driven by drama you have a very good blockbuster that people will see 2-3 times. If it's all spectacle, the drama forced in between those set pieces just falls flat. Imagine how much MORE money the Transformers movies would have made if they'd been good films.
Inception
Real Steel
Avengers
Amazing Spider-Man (the new one)
Batman: Dark Knight (not the new one)
[Raimi's] Spider-Man 1 & 2 (not 3)
All cracking good movies with drama at their hearts and spectacle on top.
I love a good heartfelt drama, something intellectual, such as Martha Macy May Marlene, which I thought was brilliant, but there isn't a big enough market for these to invest big time. Leave these to the filmmakers who can handle the story and let the lack of budget force them to create better stories.
Meanwhile I wish Hollywood would churn out more middle budget stuff. Decent thrillers and actioners, a good comedy, more female-led projects, etc, and I think the key is what Marvel have done so well: let the filmmakers make their vision.
Sure, sometimes when that happens you get Adam Sandler in drag or Paul Rudd improv-ing dirty talk to a mirror, but you're likely going to get Inception or The Prestige or Cabin in the Woods.
Fund some lower or mid-range budget stuff. Counter programme the blockbusters yourself. This year has proven you can have the Avengers released beside the Best Exotic Marigold Hotel and both can blow their budgets away in raw profit.
Take a chance, I say.
A Participant says:
Since I often times mention movies that flop, I thought it's only fair to mention those that hit, especially if that hit came off the bat of a low budget and/or original story.
"Magic Mike" not my taste, but the ladies loved it. $7 mil to produce, $39 mil at the box office. Nice to see WB thinking small.
"Ted", unique idea; unique story. May originality always prevail. $50 mil budget, nice to recoup that type of budget on the first weekend plus some.
On another note, little spideyman will be a flop. Hurry up and face The Rhino already!
"Magic Mike" not my taste, but the ladies loved it. $7 mil to produce, $39 mil at the box office. Nice to see WB thinking small.
"Ted", unique idea; unique story. May originality always prevail. $50 mil budget, nice to recoup that type of budget on the first weekend plus some.
On another note, little spideyman will be a flop. Hurry up and face The Rhino already!
Martin Jackson says:
@Prodigy
Nice to see the success of Ted and Magic Mike.
But I hate to bust your bubble on the New Spider-man movie. The movie has already been released in the international market and it's been doing really well. In some countries it has had a better opening then the Avengers.
http://www.deadline.com/2012/07/spider-man-opens-bigger-than-avengers-in-early-foreign-markets-exclusive/
Nice to see the success of Ted and Magic Mike.
But I hate to bust your bubble on the New Spider-man movie. The movie has already been released in the international market and it's been doing really well. In some countries it has had a better opening then the Avengers.
http://www.deadline.com/2012/07/spider-man-opens-bigger-than-avengers-in-early-foreign-markets-exclusive/
Martin Jackson says:
@R.P McMurphy
and now superhero movies are not only targeting kids but teens and grown-up geeks as well.
I don't think the movies being made right now say much about us becoming a dumb down society as much as it does that hollywood has became more focused on making safe bets (ie the big budget blockbuster)
and now superhero movies are not only targeting kids but teens and grown-up geeks as well.
I don't think the movies being made right now say much about us becoming a dumb down society as much as it does that hollywood has became more focused on making safe bets (ie the big budget blockbuster)
Matthew Watters says:
More Hollywood FLOPS - Three Stooges and The Amazing Spiderman....you can't have a movie without a good plot, neither of these have a plot worth a pinch of.....
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