If you see a movie based upon my work you will understand why a writer would want to embed unique ideas in a copyrighted full script rather than pass them on for free to a "team of writers" in a proposal.
As Sam says, "Doing a rewrite is assumed to be just as much work as doing an original script." If that is the case why leave half a million on the table? The current script is 100% unprofitable - as the notes for it acknowledge (the notes by the way are the most intelligent writing on Amazon's site...their authorship ought to be attributed, I would like to know who their author was...it is worth submitting original work just to receive such feedback, hopefully.)
A month ago I sat down and tore through dialogue, rewriting as quickly as I could read - ruthlessly. It was easy, of course. The characters aren't cool, intelligent, witty or sophisticated. Clipping a few worthless distracting weird contrived scenes went well - until around page 40, when the urgency of finding Jessica was lost, and, of course, as others have mentioned, at page ~60 when suddenly ugly unworkable racist overtones came into play. Then I seriously questioned why I was helping some other person with such attitudes rewrite.
After having put in a few hours of work, I stopped writing and read the rest of the script straight through. To be frank I cannot remember what was in the script and what I must have dreamt in the meantime because it is such a convoluted bizarre disaster. "Zany" as the notes say. That is an understatement.
So, after wrapping my mind around a contemporary romantic comedy road trip based upon age old identity conflicts - the staple of Shakespearian comedy - I thought, why the hell not write - rather than rewrite - this entire script? Cliff can become a good writer. This is not personal, even what I sincerely still take to be insensitive racist overtones - which others have noticed - can be overcome. Cliff can be a good writer. I hope he becomes one. Our culture needs as many as possible.
But I looked a second time at the compensation differences between an original script and this rewrite "opportunity." It didn't make sense to share in a writer's proposal unique ideas for a script (which would eventually have to be written) without embedding them deeply in an original submission. They are very unique.
I am not "hard to work with" - well to a certain extent I hope we all are, with integrity - but, it is important to be clear, not to pull any punches, when writing a review or rewriting someone else's horrific ridiculous work. That's just the way it is.
I hope you will understand when, if, you see my ideas. That's as sincerely as I can state it. Good luck to all who submitted proposals.
---
If I could make a suggestion to Amazon...the last place crowd sourcing makes sense is in writing. It is difficult to imagine how Hamlet would have been improved by multiple writers. Crowd sourcing makes sense in the creation of trailers, pre-viz, and even in readings by actors who are characters in their own right, in real life, like Burbage ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Burbage ) ...it would be an honor and rare privilege to work with such people, even online. Assume you first have Hamlet in a rough draft though...orient the online workflow then to polishing and moving forward to filming. Preference has to be given to the original writer. Not a cheap 45 day guaranteed read for novices - like myself - but give consideration to how to attract and retain world class original authors. AS is phenomenally set up to build upon a vision but the original script cannot be crowd sourced. Most writers do not want to create trailers, sound tracks, pre-viz and so on - outsourcing that is the strength of an online studio. Original visions cannot be crowd sourced. Respect the writer. Compensate accordingly. As vain as it sounds, assume you are working with Shakespeare - what then? Enable their vision. AS is uniquely positioned to attract such talent.
Sam knows what he's talking about and Eric does not. That is all.
Because that's something that doesn't often happen in the real world of Hollywood. If you're so busy, work on your own material and hoof it outside Amazon.
Ideas are not copyrightable and cannot legally be owned. They are not "yours" in any legal sense.
A.S. is WGA signatory and their system is in accordance with the Guild's practices, designed BY writers FOR the protection OF writers.
I suggest the O.P. (and really, everyone here) subscribe to the Craig Mazin/John August podcast and catch up on their back episodes. They do a good job of educating about how writing works in the film industry.
Amazon Studios' selling point to novice screenwriters is: someone capable of writing a check will read your script within 45 days. From a writer's perspective that is a real opportunity.
Writers have two choices:
1) Give Amazon free ideas, for which they might pay $33,000. If the film is produced they will pay 100,000 dollars only.
2) Submit a copyrighted full script - which if your proposal wins you will have to write anyway - and within 45 days someone competent may provide intelligent, thorough notes on how to perfect your own work, along with $10,000. If the film goes into production you will earn $200,000 straightaway and another $400,000 if it makes more than 60 million. If the film is not produced you can still sell your work elsewhere.
If you are confident in your writing the 45 day copyrighted original writer path is the way to go. Given the quality of this current script any alternative original script easily has just as much "shot at being made."
By choosing the 45 day option you could make an additional $100,000 to $500,000, retain rights to your unique ideas, and may receive notes from a professional who genuinely understands storytelling.
Road trips are a common genre - from Ice Age and Finding Nemo to Easy Rider and Thelma and Louise, the field is varied and wide open. Confused personalities, disguised characters, and deceptive identities have been the staple of comedies for millennia, from Sophocles to Shakespeare.
Be confident. This zany mess is unsalvageable. Go for the half million, submit an original script.
This is not an on line Video game where you can just badger the GM's into changing the game so you can win.
Because you have a much better shot of seeing this made and getting a writing credit by helping Amazon develop this script, IMO.
We will see what happens.
yes, everyone understands what a treatment is, that is not the issue.
writers are asked to submit non-copyrighted ideas on spec, for free, with the risk of not winning
and
Amazon is placing all their bets on one writer's submission in a format different from the final goal, a script
these are separate issues but each involves high risk for both parties, likely lose-lose
As it stands if a writer creates an original romantic comedy road story involving social media which is 100% different from the corny contrived "Zany hostage thriller" of "I Think My Facebook Friend is Dead" that writer has far more incentive to submit their work as an original script rather than share ideas with Amazon in a spec competition for much less reward, if any.
If anyone creates a unique story involving virtual worlds and social media in the context of a road trip, such a writer is better served submitting their own original script to Amazon rather than rewriting this one.
Why risk sharing unique ideas with Amazon on spec instead of copyrighting them in an original full-length script - especially since, if you win, you're going to have to write a full script anyway...?
Eric,
The reasons for having interested writers put together a proposal are many fold, but the main reason is to see if the writer(s) can grasp and effectively communicate ideas without wasting words. Isn't that what screenwriting is? A complicated haiku? It's a pretty sure bet that if a writer can't put together a great proposal in a succinct manner, they most likely will be unable to handle a much more complicated dramatic structure. So, as many have suggested about a spec being a great writing sample (and that is a VERY TRUE STATEMENT) which can get you a lot of work, so it is with something like this proposal. It is your calling card for this job.
In the real world, how it works is you might get a script from a producer (after they have read your calling card). They'll ask you to read it. They might have even helped write it and for sure have been involved in its development. But anyway, they'll ask for your thoughts... Your take on it. A lot of times, this conversation is your rewriting calling card. Amazon doesn't have time to talk to all of the people who want to do this... so this is the next best thing.
Hope this helps!
R.
LOL
Amazon deleted my post because I spelled out d*cks
now they'll attract good writers
[Deleted by Amazon Studios on May 05, 2012 05:48 PM UTC]
"Can we just upload a rewritten full length script? What is the point of wasting a writer's time with treatments, character proposals, etc....why not just give us the option of uploading our best effort at a rewrite and let us be done with it??"
the point of "wasting" your time on a writer's proposal is so they don't have to read an entire awful rewrite by you. they look at the proposal and see if you're worth considering.
they're trying not to waste THEIR time.
[Deleted by Amazon Studios on May 05, 2012 05:47 PM UTC]
Sam: You are 100% right. Period. It was worth saying three times. Thus the universe stepped in and did it for you. ;)
This is the way the industry works.
And producers would rather work with good writers who are professional team players than with "brilliant" writers who who are d*cks.
Good luck everyone.
When writing your proposal, you'll have to develop the screenplay, so whether the proposal was written or not, you'll still have to do the work anyway. So you might as well spend a fraction of the time to develop and write the screenplay and just write the proposal that illustrates the development.
If you create a treatment for 'I THINK MY FACEBOOK FRIEND IS DEAD' you'll notice that one of the elements of the hero's journey is missing.
Reading the script you'll also notice that pacing drastically slows when encountering two certain characters. The ones that killed the pace got cut!
By writing down the chracters you'll also notice that the last half of the script introduces named characters that don't really have a set-up earlier in the script.
One major action scenes that could make the protagonist a 'physical' hero was not embraced and the writers missed an Oscar moment. They missed a 'level-up' moment that could have propelled the protag from zero to hero. It's in my bag now! :-)
The first page of the Writer's Proposal is where it could live or die... I didn't ice on any thick bull-shit I just succintly 'guilded the Lily'. My scripts a Fabergé egg. The potential is inside.
yes, a mutual relationship, no one is dictating, just suggesting...they can try to hire anyone
(The proven writers you mentioned are selected beforehand specifically by studios and probably paid for submitting treatments...we are not paid to offer treatments....this opportunity is initiated on spec...it is normal an unpaid writer taking time to think through a rewrite on spec would want to demonstrate as thoroughly as possible how much improved their actual script is...especially if they rewrite quickly. It would also seem in the interest of producers to at least skim as many full length actual scripts as possible, rather than also place all their eggs in one basket.)
Eric, I think what you somehow fail to grasp is that they are hiring you--you are not hiring them. They have a process (as does any studio) and if you don't feel like following it...you don't have to. But to dictate to them how their process is flawed, probably won't engender a lot of love for you with them...
It's not a diss, but even amazing writers like Ted Elliott and Terry Rossio have to do treatments and beat sheets, etc if the studios ask...they have the money, we have the talent.
Take that for what it's worth man...just my .02.
Thank you Kareem, I agree. The ultimate objective is a profitable script. Amazon can make their own decision. If they want to work with writers who can improve their projects, they will offer compensation. Original dialogue and events can be extracted if they do not respond.
Amazon Studios should be uninterested in following the way Hollywood has 'worked' for less than a few of decades, all pre-internet. Currently they are soliciting proposals in an entirely different format from their ultimate objective, then deciding upon a single "writer or writing team" to generate a single script. This could be a disaster. It does not take advantage of the internet. It is in the interest of producers at Amazon to do everything possible to solicit as many different rewritten scripts as possible. Let the lawyers and programmers figure out how: "Deadline May 15, 30k reward. Send it here."
If a person feels more comfortable rewriting a full script - ruthlessly - as quickly as others hammer out multi-page book reports, so be it. I am uninterested in obsessing over a treatment and "creative vision" - for even a few days - when it is just as easy and quick to do the whole script and be clear about it: this is what I can write…no need for Amazon to second guess it, no need for me to be unsure they'll get my "creative vision." ("book report" that's sarcasm, Sam)
Enough of forums. The current script is worthless. It cannot make money. Mine will.
There are no professional writers.
Sorry for the extra posts. Not sure what happened there.
To do a rewrite properly does not take "a couple of days." If you think that, you are not ready for prime time. Doing a rewrite is assumed to be just as much work as doing an original script.
You don't seem to understand how screenwriting works as a career. This is how it's done. When there's an open assignment, multiple screenwriters are invited to PITCH how they would approach a rewrite. What you are amateurishly calling a "book report" is the content of a typical pitch. If you do not understand this procedure, or do not like it, you will never work in Hollywood. Sorry, but that's just the reality of the situation. Hollywood almost never buys original specs. Most of a screenwriting career involves pitching for open assignments. You do not do those rewrites on spec because YOU DON'T OWN THE RIGHTS to those scripts, and thus could never shop around the script you wrote if it didn't sell.
If you want to spend your time writing an entire script on spec, make sure it's your OWN script, based on your own idea. Knock it out of the park, and you've got a calling card script you can shop around and (if you're really lucky) you can sell it, or at least you can use it to get the opportunity to pitch for open assignments. Otherwise, don't do the work if you aren't getting paid to do it. That's what separates the serious writers from the wannabe-hobbyists.
To do a rewrite properly does not take "a couple of days." If you think that, you are not ready for prime time. Doing a rewrite is assumed to be just as much work as doing an original script.
You don't seem to understand how screenwriting works as a career. This is how it's done. When there's an open assignment, multiple screenwriters are invited to PITCH how they would approach a rewrite. What you are amateurishly calling a "book report" is the content of a typical pitch. If you do not understand this procedure, or do not like it, you will never work in Hollywood. Sorry, but that's just the reality of the situation. Hollywood almost never buys original specs. Most of a screenwriting career involves pitching for open assignments. You do not do those rewrites on spec because YOU DON'T OWN THE RIGHTS to those scripts, and thus could never shop around the script you wrote if it didn't sell.
If you want to spend your time writing an entire script on spec, make sure it's your OWN script, based on your own idea. Knock it out of the park, and you've got a calling card script you can shop around and (if you're really lucky) you can sell it, or at least you can use it to get the opportunity to pitch for open assignments. Otherwise, don't do the work if you aren't getting paid to do it. That's what separates the serious writers from the wannabe-hobbyists.
To do a rewrite properly does not take "a couple of days." If you think that, you are not ready for prime time. Doing a rewrite is assumed to be just as much work as doing an original script.
You don't seem to understand how screenwriting works as a career. This is how it's done. When there's an open assignment, multiple screenwriters are invited to PITCH how they would approach a rewrite. What you are amateurishly calling a "book report" is the content of a typical pitch. If you do not understand this procedure, or do not like it, you will never work in Hollywood. Sorry, but that's just the reality of the situation. Hollywood almost never buys original specs. Most of a screenwriting career involves pitching for open assignments. You do not do those rewrites on spec because YOU DON'T OWN THE RIGHTS to those scripts, and thus could never shop around the script you wrote if it didn't sell.
If you want to spend your time writing an entire script on spec, make sure it's your OWN script, based on your own idea. Knock it out of the park, and you've got a calling card script you can shop around and (if you're really lucky) you can sell it, or at least you can use it to get the opportunity to pitch for open assignments. Otherwise, don't do the work if you aren't getting paid to do it. That's what separates the serious writers from the wannabe-hobbyists.
Eric, While I get what you're thinking (ie. since to write the proposal you basically have to have you're own version of the script done (at least in your head) [most would probably just have an outline written]).
But the truth is, it's way easier to read 3-5 pages of synopsis to see if the story seems to be interesting/ on track; rather then a 90+ page script. Granted, they may miss some great dialogue that way, but that's just how it goes.
If they like most of your proposal, they might give a few notes or suggestions for your rewrite.
